Advance the Church – Q&A

Q&A with Darrin Patrick, Alan Hirsch, and Dr. Danny Akin.

How would you encourage churches to practically reach out to the city in spite of opposition?

DP: Try not to have morning meetings that kill your prayer life.  You start your day with meetings and you’re not thinking about the Lord.  Really consider moving your meetings back to where you have carved out some time for you and Jesus.

AH: Incarnation is like romancing your city.  It’s like learning to see aspects of your wife you hadn’t seen before.  Learning to love your city is a very good thing.  Walking around and learning to pray in the city.  The other idea of course is the idea of prevenient grace, that God is involved in every person calling them to Jesus Christ.  God is already gone ahead and wooing them.

DA: I think you have to recognize that your people crawl before they walk before they run.  I think if you come back from a conference like this and try to go too far too fast, you’re going to crash and burn.  Maybe look to find a time where the body comes together corporately to pray.  Anything we do needs to be grounded in the Word.

I agree we must be part of this world living as Jesus did among sinners.  Jesus interacted harlots and the sexually immoral, but surely they were not comfortable sitting around him.  They left their sins behind to follow him.  How do we live in the world but not be of the world?

AH: Look at how Jesus deals with the woman caught in adultery.  She’s probably naked, dragged out among these men.  Jesus won’t even look up at her, he’s writing in the ground.  He gives the dignity of not staring at her.  In dealing with sexual sinners, and in many way other sorts of sin, it’s the love of God that leads us to repentance.

When you’re really living incarnationally one of the fears that a lot of people have is, what if I’m influenced by the sin I’m in the midst of? How have you led people to continue living incarnationally in spite of that fear?

DP: I think it’s impossible not to be influenced. You’re affected by church culture in sinful, abhorrent ways you don’t even realize.  If you tell people to go out as missionaries, it’s not going to be perfect.  You’re not Jesus.  You’re not going to get the balance right.  Some of you are so worried about being corrupted you don’t enter in.  Others are so entered in that you’re not presenting a challenge to the culture while you’re there.  I don’t think there’s any way to be a good missionary and never sin and never be corrupted.  I just don’t know if there’s a perfect balance.

AH: When people are so reticent to go to the place of sinners, we ask them, what good is Jesus if going to a pub is going to cause you to lose your faith?  Proximity is very important.  Here’s the thing.  Don’t do it alone.  Go there as agents of Jesus.

DA: There’s no place in the Christian life for a Lone Ranger.  Even he had Tonto.  Jesus sent people out in pairs.  Don’t go alone.  If you’re going to work with sinners (which we all are), you’re going to get dirty.

AH: Discipleship is done when we engage the world.  You’re going to fall, but grace is being provided for you.  You’re covered.  Off you go.

What would you recommend to pastors who are trying to move congregations from moralism and legalism to true expressions of faith?

AH: Holiness exemplified through Jesus comes down from God into the world.  Don’t see holiness as an abstraction or set of rules but living as a human being ought to live.

DP: Creating categories for people and giving definitions in your teaching.  I’ll define legalism differently from one place to another, helping them connect the dots as they read the Scriptures, help them understand that Pharisaical thinking is alive and well.

DA: Immerse them in the Gospels.  Jesus is always in the face of the Ph.D.s in religion.  Jesus was scathing to them and kind to the common people.  I’ve come to see how we are enslaved to traditions.  Working through the Gospel has helped me see how repugnant that is to Christ, that even my best deeds are as filthy rags.

AH: You can say some good things about the Pharisees.  So I’ll ask people to tell me what was good.  They were moral.  They defended miracles.  They defended the Scriptures.  They were missionals; they went to make converts.  They kept Israel’s identity in tact.  Then ask, who do you think these people are today? They’re Evangelicals.  Jesus was theologically a Pharisee.  It’s how you believe your beliefs.

DP: How do you show the church a different way?  Matthew 16: Jesus says he’s going to build his church on the confession of who Jesus is.  Matthew 16, the context is this: the liberals and conservatives come to Jesus.  It’s the only time they come together with a question for Jesus.  They want a sign.  And what does he give them?  The church.  When people experience grace, get a video camera on them.  Get their testimony.  Let people see the real life transformation.

Are there other examples of things we can do?  I think as pastors we think we can just preach people into this.  Not to diminish the power of preaching, but are there any other practical ways we can encourage leaders to begin reshaping the way churches are thinking in this area?

AH: I’m told one of the best ways to learn chess is to take your own queen out and let your opponent keep the queen, which means you have to learn how to use all of the other pieces in the occassion.  I think Sundays are like our queen and preaching is the queen of the queen.  We get so reliant on our queen that we forget what the other elements of ekklesia can do.  We put so much time into preaching.  What if you put that time into discipleship?  You’d probably have a greater effect over the long run.

DH: Matthew 3: Pharisees and Sadducees come to John the Baptist, and he greets them as a brood of vipers.  Earlier what does he tell them to do?  He tells them to do right things.  We typically try to think our way into right ways of acting.  Alan says to act your way into right ways of thinking.

Throughout the conference I have heard every speaker emphasize the importance of discipleship for the health of the church.  How do you do this in the church plant where most people are unchurched?

DA: Preach the Word.  Love the people.  See who that attracts.  I think Jesus called the 12 because he sensed they had a desire to follow.  Those who clearly indicate a desire to have more from Christ, disciple them.

AH: See:

DA: What many of our missionaries do on the field is get people into Bible studies, especially in Muslim countries

Could you elaborate on spiritual gifts and their impact on building up the church for works of service.  If gifts are so important, why are they so often abused or neglected?

AH: I do think the gifts have been neglected in my tradition.  With the abuses of some penecostal traditions, we went in the other direction.  We kicked the Holy Spirit to the curb.  Ephesians makes it clear that everyone who follows Christ has at least some form of spiritual gifts.  Apart from them the Church is going to be anemic and weak.  It may be a body, but it will be a maimed body.  Help people discover their gifts by getting them out them serving.

How do we balance the importance of theology with the fact it cannot save us?

DA: Theology cannot save us, but theology matters.  Does one have to have a full-orbed theology in order to be saved? No, we’re not Gnostics.  We aren’t saved by believing a piece of knowledge, but that person is specific.  I can’t be saved by the Jehovah’s Witness Jesus or the Muslim Jesus.

AH: We have to experience Jesus Christ.  Doctrine helps us have a true experience.  One thing I appreciate about my Pentacostal upbringing is that there were no blocks between them and the spiritual.  And then I went to a very conservative church where they basically believed in believing in God rather than God himself.

What would you suggest for these guys that might be struggling for sin but really don’t feel like they have a safe place to deal with it because of their environment or position?

DH: My recommendation when your planting a church is to have an outside council that functions as elders until you can develop your own elders.  If you don’t have that, find that.  They don’t have to be in your city.  It helps, but they don’t have to be.  If you already are in a situation where you have elders, leaders, and you can’t trust them, somethings wrong there.  You either have or have created a toxic environment.  If you created it, you need to repent of that as well.  If it’s a disqualifying sin, have the boldness to come out in that.

Alan Hirsch – Advance the Church – Discipleship as a Missional Strategy

I value opinions. I want to hear what you have to say, but please keep it on topic and timely.

I’m a hack. I just started pursuing ecclesiology, but I think if we can unlock the phenomenology of the movement, there’s something we can uncover. If you take disciple-making out a movement, it won’t explode. Every movement that has grown that rapidly has involved disciple-making.

Disciple-making is a strategic activity. It might be the most strategic activity we can undertake.

You get a text in Scripture that captures the very essence of the subterranean energies that undergird the Scriptures.  Deuteronomy 6 is one of them.  It sums up a worldview.  Hear O’ Israel, YHWH, our God, YHWH is one.

We in the West are trained to think of monotheism when we think of God as one.  Our minds immediately go to this concept of ontology because our minds are shaped by Hellenistic influences.  We immediately think God in his being, indivisible in his one-ness and in his three-ness.

That’s true, but that’s not what the Bible means when it talks about God’s oneness, especially not in Deuteronomy 6.  It’s hard to find many if any ontological statements in the Bible, especially in the OT.  The Bible never leads it up there, it brings it down to us.  The Word became flesh.

If I were God’s PR guy, I’d tell God to have Moses give a lecture about the being of God when Moses comes down from the mountain, but God doesn’t do that.  He starts into the 10 Commandments.  Don’t have any other gods before me.  Don’t make idols.  Then he moves into Sabbath.  He wants to have time with us.  Then he moves straight into ethics, teaching us how to live together without killing each other.  Monotheism requires that ethic of us.

All spirituality tackles this topic of idols.  In the Ancient Near East they were basically polytheists.  Our lives exist in different spheres, society, culture, politics, etc.  Polytheism doesn’t have a unfied God that controls all spheres.  Each sphere has its own god.  Most of those gods didn’t care much for human beings.  It’s dangerous.  There’s no cohesive sense.

It’s into this context that God says, “I am one.”  One God for every aspect of life.  It’s a claim to absolute loyalty, not a statement of being.  The heart of Biblical spirituality is bound up in this.  That is why the Bible deals with idolatry throughout.

All Christian spirituality, including discipleship, needs to deal with our idols.  Worship is offering the world back to God. Jesus’ act of worship is to offer everything put under his feet to the father. The Rabbis call this yichud.  The oneness of God is our response to God with every area of our life.  There is nothing that is not under the domain of God.  There is no room for a sacred and secular divide.

Our job is to make the world holy by offering it back to God.  Sexual idolatry will enslave you if you don’t offer your sexuality to God as an act of worship.

Ending idolatry is the agenda for discipleship.  Idolatry is the key to the human soul.

The church doesn’t do well in NYC where Tim Keller is.  It doesn’t do well in Australia where I am from.  We are only 2.1% of the population there.  If the only tool that you’ve got is a hammer, then everything begins to look like a nail.  Those of us who love the reformation tend to understand everything through the lens of justification by grace.  I can tell you that most people in NYC do not lay awake at night worried about their standing before a holy God.  Most people nowadays don’t feel the guilt and fear that Martin Luther felt.  So if we approach people with justification by grace, then we have to make them feel bad before we make them feel better, and that makes us Pharisees.  It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to convict.

If you ask someone in NYC if they feel captured or enslaved by their work because they want money or status or whatever.  They’ll say yes. They can recognize the idolatry in their lives.  That’s when we offer freedom in Christ.  You can’t love anything too much.  You can only love it too much in relation to God. You must love it less than God or else it’s an idol.  But the point isn’t to love something else less but to love God more.

All of our vices are corrupted virtues.  They’re looking for love and value in all of the wrong places.

Most of our churches are professing monotheists but practicing polytheists.

Do you think our one day a week discipleship in a classroom can actually make disciples?

Most of us in the Protestant churches are weary of spiritual formation because we think it’s works righteousness.  But it’s not just teaching doctrine that’s discipleship.  We think our sermons are going to cause spiritual formation, but I don’t think so.  We need another way of forming people in Christ.  Context is everything.  Don’t take people out of their context.  You can’t learn leadership outside of the context of leadership.  You can’t learn ministry outside of the context of ministry.  We take our interns to the edge of their experience, where they don’t know half of what they need.  And then we have them take another half-step.  Now they don’t know 75% of what they’re doing.  That’s how we make disciples.  We put them a little bit at risk.

Can you give them a specific example of what that looks like?

Well, a youth pastor comes to us and wants to learn how to do that better.  Why don’t we take a project where you try to reach out to the punk culture in your youth group or even plant a church in punk culture.  That’s outside of your comfort zone.

What is your definition of discipleship?

Becoming more and more and more like Jesus and having more and more of Jesus living in me.  Now, you are not Jesus, and if you think you can become him, you should take pills, but we do need to become like Him.

In terms of structuring the type of discipleship I hear you talking about, would you say that our sort of “build it and they will come” mentality is the wrong answer?

I wonder if it has to do how we conceive of church in a largely churched society, within the cultural distance of a church and has some memory of church.  The attractional model somewhat works here where people have some familiarity of church, but that won’t work in San Francisco.  But when we do that we pull people out of the community that they’re in, so then they’re no longer impacting that segment of society.  We must go into those areas.  We’ve won a lot of people to faith through a seeker sensitive model, but we just got decisions not disciples.  We created a clergy class.  Movements change the world.  Everyone gets to play.

The way that YHWH is king in the NT is Jesus is Lord.

We must reframe evangelism in the context of discipleship.  We’ve largely misread the Great Commission as an evangelistic command.  We think we know what evangelism is, that we have to pass out this information about Jesus and then someone responds.  And I have no connection with them before or after.  We think evangelism is conferring some information about Jesus.

We’re to go into all of the world and make disciple of all nations.  We are called to be a disciple-making people.  I’m not saying people shouldn’t come to Christ and they shouldn’t share some information.

Here’s what you’ve got:

Pre-conversion * Post-conversion



But it’s all discipleship.  On both sides.

What about this? You get to know your neighbor and ask them how you can help them become a better person.  They may start with how to get a Ferrari and women, but quickly they’ll turn to their pain and existential issues.  That’s when you reach down into their imago Dei and grab ahold of it.  That’s discipleship.

Let me take you to the Bible.  When do you think the 12 disciples were born again?  I’m going to say it’s probably somewhere around the death and resurrection or after that.  So what was Jesus doing?  He was dealing with pre-conversion disciples.

The early Christians were persecuted.  When someone was considering joining the Church, he was blindfolded and brought to the elders.  They questioned him on his belief system and when he failed, sent him away and told him to undergo catechetical study for two years with the person who brought him to the church.  At the end of two years he is brought back to the elders, again blindfolded and after more intense questioning, he is finally allowed back into the church.

Is there a difference between discipleship and evangelism?  Evangelism is a sharing of good news and recruiting to the cause, but I would argue it is best done in the context of discipleship.

How do we become good at addressing our own idolatry, trying to apply the Gospel that should set us free form idolatry and get to the root of our struggles?

Again, I would say the communal side.  We shouldn’t be alone in our struggle.  It takes a community to say, we take Jesus seriously.

One of the problems is that we in the western church are confessional.  I’ve never been in a church where I didn’t believe with the value statement they have on the wall, but it should be an embodied belief.

Here’s the idea:

  • Bless x 3 – Everyone in the community has to do three acts of blessing a week, how and why they do it is entirely up to them.
    • One to a person inside the community of faith
    • One to a person outside of the community of faith
    • One to either side
  • Eat x 3 – You’re going to eat with people at least three times.
    • One to a person inside the community of faith
    • One to a person outside of the community of faith
    • One to either side
  • Listen 1 hour/week – One hour a week of contemplative prayer, just listening to God.
  • Learning reading each week:
    • 1 Gospel
    • 1 Other Book of the Bible
    • 1 Other Book – Doesn’t matter what kind of book, but it has to be a good book, the best you can find in any given category.
  • Sent – Everyone in the community spends at least 10 minutes reflecting on their day, answering 2 questions:
    • Where did I work with Jesus today?
    • Where did I resist Jesus today

When they come together on a sunday, they just go through the BELLS exercise again.  They bless each other, eat together, be quiet before God for 20 minutes, they learn from someone with a gift of teaching, at the end of service they send one another out.

This is largely a group of 20-30 somethings who are notoriously difficult to organize.  So what happens?  The community begins to move together in rhythm.

Alan Hirsch – Advance the Church – How the Gospel Changes Christian Discipleship – l

Liveblog of Alan Hirsch’s talk at Advance the Church on How the Gospel Changes Christian Discipleship

The 2/3 world is doing pretty well without us, but as far as the West is concerned, if the Church in America can get it, that is where the battle will be won or lost.

But right now there is not a setting where the church is advancing. This conference is very much a part of that recovery. We’re very scripted to think in certain ways by the media. We take our doctrines lightly and have become familiar with them. We need to think differently.

What I want to wrestle with is some of the big ideas. I come very much as a friend, with some of the same concerns about Christianity in the west, the centrality of the Gospel and how we understand these things.

I want to shoot from the hip and speak from the heart. I haven’t weighed every word.

Discipleship is one of the biggest issues of our day.  It has strategic significance.  Our quality as God’s people is determined by how well we can disciple people.

Discipleship begs the question, discipleship to what, or to whom are we being discipled?  What forces in our culture are discipling us?

The obvious answer seems to be Jesus, but how we answer that question determines what it means to be a Christ follower.  If it’s not Jesus, then other forces are filling that.  I’d argue that consumerism is winning the day.

People are in search of meaning, significance, and belonging.  That’s what buying a brand is.  Marketers reach into people’s worlds.

I had a conversation with a marketing director years ago and he said where the church is stepping back, we are stepping into that void.

It’s idolatry, false worship, the most fundamental of our sins.

What are we following is a huge question, which leads to an even bigger one which gets at the heart of Biblical doctrine, the link between Christology and soteriology.  What is the nature of the connection between these two things.  Unless we understand that link, all we get is more of what we got.

The way I hear the word Gospel being used, it’s as if it’s some stand alone thing disconnected from the rest of Biblical doctrine.  We often use it to bash people around or argue against other Christians.  What I love about this conference and why I canceled other things to come is that they’re trying to put the revolution back in context with the original Revolutionary: Christ.

The most systematic theologian of the Bible doesn’t have that clear cut of separations between doctrines.

I’d argue that the problem goes even deeper.  It is elusive to us.  Partly because we live in America.  The word Gospel has been used in America for a long time.  We use it very easily.

The ancient Stoic philosopher Epictetus said it is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.  We think we know what the Gospel means, that we’ve got it all worked out, we understand this.

And in fact that might be our biggest problem, that we think we’ve got it all figured out.  Sometiems you’ve got to take another look at something.  We’ve got to step back from it and take another loving look.  It’s like the doctrine of God, once you think you’ve got it down, it escapes from your grasp.  It can’t be boiled down into four spiritual laws, that’s a dangerous reduction of the Gospel.

Henri Matisse is to look at something as though we’ve never seen it before takes a lot of courage.

As we recalibrate the church at this critical time in history, it has radical ramifications for the Church in the future.  What we do now will have major impact in the future.

I get the sense that we think we understand the Gospel.  It’s what Paul taught, right?  Well, yes, Paul’s writings are God-given and God-inspired.  It’s canonical.  But here’s the thing, Paul was given the authority by God to explicate the Gospel.  But here’s the thing, he’s explicating something else, the Christ event.  The Christ event is the Gospel, Paul is just explaining something beyond himself.

It’s all about Jesus in the end.  It really is.  That’s got a very specific shape.  It’s not just some vague notion of God.  It’s not some ideology.  It’s a person.  We can’t just extract our soteriology from the salvation story.  They’re inseparable.

In the NT you have the religion of Jesus.  You get a sense of who Jesus is, but you also have in the NT, the religion about Jesus, led primarily by Paul.  You’ve got to have both together. The liberals have always tried to just focus on the religion of Jesus.  The conservative theologians have focused on the other piece, the religion about Jesus.

What you end up with when you focus only on the religion about Jesus is cheap grace.  You’ve made it cheap and you’ve made it too accessible.

We Evangelicals have tended to focus on the Cross, and that’s a good thing.  We’ve argued about the return piece.  We pretty much stay with the death, resurrection, and return of Jesus, and I think we’ve got it largely right.  But here’s the thing, what ever happened to the incarnation.  The eternal, immortal God enters into creation and becomes one of us.  Is that not a foundational truth.  Should that not shape our engagement of the world?

Jesus enters in doesn’t speak without.  The best we do is think about little baby Jesus at Christmas rather than lord of the world, savior, mystery.  It doesn’t even really play for us at Christmas.  Father Christmas trumps Jesus.

Whatever happened to the other piece in the equation, his historical life, his teachings, his example, the quality, how he showed us to be something.  What happened to that in his teachings?  What happened to the kingdom of God, his lordship, what it means to live under the sovereignty of god?

You can only get that by focusing on his life.  It’s the whole Jesus phenomenon that is the Gospel.

That’s where that whole discipleship piece is, in Christ’s life.

We have all kinds of influences pushing on us, and if we’re not going to allow Jesus to be the force that shapes us, what else is?

We’ve got to re-engage the Gospel as a whole event in which Jesus plays the key part.

It’s a heresy to split the person from his work.  We believe in both things.  We have no right to separate the two, to extract one from the other.  You end up with a Jesusless Gospel.  If you take Jesus out you end up looking like something other than Jesus.

There are books out right now by non-Christians that say the Church doesn’t look like Jesus.  They don’t always know what Jesus looks like, but they’ve got a handle on that.  Jesus isn’t always Mr. Nice Guy, but there is something alluring about Jesus.

This is what Gnostics do.  They believe you’re saved by certain ideas, certain codes.  We are not Gnostics.  We don’t believe you are saved by a piece of information.  Christians have always fought this idea with everything.  Our Gospel has a face, and his name is Jesus.

There is a difference between a disciple and an idealogue. The Pharisees separated Doctrine from the whole God piece of the equation, so much so that they missed Jesus.  They were idealogues.  So was Stalin. So was Hitler. So are the Tea Partiers and their opposites.  And it’s ugly.  Ideology can’t save us.

Of all of God’s people, the Reformed have the most tendency to be ideological, to be Pharisees.  It’s our covenants, that we don’t believe in a separation of law and Gospel.  We’re the guardians of truth and morality.  The problem is that you extract these from Jesus and they’re ideologies.

Jesus changes everything, absolutely everything, the way we understand God, and not just that Jesus is God-like, although that is true.  The greater truth is God is like Jesus.  There is nothing unChrist-like in God.  Jesus says this: If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.  It is Jesus who introduces us to trinitarian dynamics.

Jesus changes what it is to be God’s people.  It’s now the body of Christ.  We’re distinctly Jesus-people.  We should be shaped by him, representing him.  It changes everything, how we do mission, how we see people.

This has everything to do with discipleship.  Discipleship is based on Jesus Christ.  Jesus is Lord and savior.

John Stott says Jesus is the curriculum. He is the classroom, and He is the teacher.  We are to become more and more and more and more and more like Jesus every day, and this is what the Spirit does to us.

The doctrine of Jesus is taht God has been manifest in our humanity, so we understand God because all way have to do is look at Jesus.

Isn’t it funny that Jesus looks like a liberal in liberal churches, a fundamentalist in fundamentalist churches, a teeteetotaler in teetotaling churches.  Jesus breaks all of those categories.

How about this?  What kind of holiness is it that hookers loved to be around this guy?  The sinners loved him.   The religious people hated him.  They put him on the cross.

I often ask people what would happen if Jesus showed up at their church.  One guy said after pondering it, “I think we’d probably kill him again.”  We all sat they’re silently for two minutes.  He was probably right.  Who is this Jesus who shows up at a wedding and provides wine at a party where people are already two sheets to the wind.

Jesus has them bring over the holy water.  That’s what those barrels were used for.  They bring them over and he turns them into wine.  Put that into your teetotaling pipe and smoke it.  I’m not saying you should go grogg it up, but perhaps you could stand to relax a bit.

We put Jesus in a box.  Voltaire said God made us in his image, and we return the favor.

How does Jesus treat sexual sinners?  He is very gracious with them.  He reserves his harshest words for religious people.  We should become like him.  Hang around with some hookers, for the right reasons.

That’s what we must become like.  Discipleship is the process of becoming more like Him.

Once you put discipleship in the context of Christology, it must culminate in a life of following him, a life of obedience.  Obedience to what, to whom? You become a slave to what you obey.

Again, I take us back to Jesus.  The Gospel teaches us how to become like Jesus.

The Great Commission is not an evangelistic text. It is a discipling one.

What does it mean that the truth will set us free?  Look at the context: John 8:31-32.  Jesus says: If you hold to my teaching, you really are my disciples, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.  If you hold to his words and follow him, only then will you know the truth and be set free by it. You’ve got to hold to the Word.

Discipleship is not an impersonal idea.  It initiates us into a journey of what it means to follow Jesus.  That’s the kind of truth that sets us free.  If you take discipleship out you can’t get there.  Obedience is the respect we pay to God to enter in to relationship.  Obedience plays a major role in entering in to discipleship.

The tropoligical interpretation of discipleship has a long history.  The only way you can truly understand the Bible is to obey it.  If you refuse to obey it’s commands, you cannot possibly understand it.  By eliminating simple obedience on principle, we drift into an unevangelical interpretation of the Bible.  You can’t understand it unless you obey it.  Only he who believes it can understand, and only he who understands can believe.  This is Luther’s understanding, trusting ourselves to God.

Have you ever thought about this? Jesus never commands us to worship Him, but he does command us to obey him.  That’s the worship we give to Jesus, obedience.

Folks, if you’re using the Gospel as ideology, seriously, I call you from the bottom of my heart to repent.  If you’re not becoming more and more and more like Jesus every day and are committed to doing that, just step aside because you’re just making it harder for the rest of us.

We’re not supposed to be nice, but we’re meant to outlive everyone else, outparty, outserve, outlive, outdie.  We’re to do it all more fully.

This is our Lord.  This is the one we obey, and it’s good news.  It’s not heavy.  It’s good news.